As the first snowflake graces the ground, I always find myself reflecting on the true meaning of the holiday spirit. This episode is a canvas of thoughts painted with the vibrant hues of art, poetry, and heartwarming tales that redefine the essence of Christmas. Our journey begins with an enigmatic painting that might just alter your festive perceptions, while we muse over the symbols that make the holidays a time of joy and benevolence, transcending religious boundaries. And if you're keen to dive deeper into the art realm, I'm thrilled to shine a spotlight on Luke Travers' latest Kindle release, "Stories and Paint," which promises to enrich your artistic engagement.
Reconnection is the heart of this season's joy, and here, I bare my soul with personal anecdotes of rekindling ties that time had loosened but never fully undone. This is a tribute to the giving spirit, with nods to the altruism we see so movingly depicted in films and literature, where the warmth of family and community glows brighter than the most lavishly adorned Christmas tree. You'll hear how acts of kindness, like those from Amélie's world, can sprinkle magic into the mundane and how striking a balance between professional success and personal fulfillment is a theme as timeless as the holiday classics we know and love.
The episode wraps with an exploration of the profound ripple effect that personal happiness can have when it spreads to others, through the lens of Scrooge's iconic transformation. My dear friend Kirk joins me in unwrapping those 'secret anniversaries of the heart,' those whimsical private joys that burn bright in the festive cold. We reflect on the emotional craftsmanship behind new connections and celebrate the inclusivity that this season epitomizes. Reunited with old friends, we illuminate the simple yet profound pleasure of reaching out and the undeniable warmth that it brings to the holiday tapestry.
Painting described: "Under the Trees' by Èdouar Vuillard
As the first snowflake graces the ground, I always find myself reflecting on the true meaning of the holiday spirit. This episode is a canvas of thoughts painted with the vibrant hues of art, poetry, and heartwarming tales that redefine the essence of Christmas. Our journey begins with an enigmatic painting that might just alter your festive perceptions, while we muse over the symbols that make the holidays a time of joy and benevolence, transcending religious boundaries. And if you're keen to dive deeper into the art realm, I'm thrilled to shine a spotlight on Luke Travers' latest Kindle release, "Stories and Paint," which promises to enrich your artistic engagement.
Reconnection is the heart of this season's joy, and here, I bare my soul with personal anecdotes of rekindling ties that time had loosened but never fully undone. This is a tribute to the giving spirit, with nods to the altruism we see so movingly depicted in films and literature, where the warmth of family and community glows brighter than the most lavishly adorned Christmas tree. You'll hear how acts of kindness, like those from Amélie's world, can sprinkle magic into the mundane and how striking a balance between professional success and personal fulfillment is a theme as timeless as the holiday classics we know and love.
The episode wraps with an exploration of the profound ripple effect that personal happiness can have when it spreads to others, through the lens of Scrooge's iconic transformation. My dear friend Kirk joins me in unwrapping those 'secret anniversaries of the heart,' those whimsical private joys that burn bright in the festive cold. We reflect on the emotional craftsmanship behind new connections and celebrate the inclusivity that this season epitomizes. Reunited with old friends, we illuminate the simple yet profound pleasure of reaching out and the undeniable warmth that it brings to the holiday tapestry.
Painting described: "Under the Trees' by Èdouar Vuillard
Welcome everybody to another surprised by art special edition special edition holiday edition with Luke Travers and Kirk Barbera. Today, our theme will be the holiday spirit, so we're going to talk about the holiday spirit, just so you know, if this is your first time, what Luke and I do is Luke has brought a painting that I have probably or possibly, never seen, or at least probably never experienced. And then I'm going to be experiencing, I'm going to be surprised, for the one I don't think you're going to like. Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Maybe you might, we'll see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't even know if I'm going to like this holiday season.
Speaker 2:Oh man, all over the place.
Speaker 1:I'm in a mood this season.
Speaker 2:We'll try to pull you out of the mood and if you're feeling grinchy out there, maybe you'll try to pull you out of your wrenchiness to add some Christmas spirit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I will. So we'll go through that. I'll give a visual description. You know, luke will help guide me through it. And then I have brought a poem that also, I think, captures my, I think it captures my mood and holidays. So it's going to be an interesting, an interesting one. I do love for the, for the record, I love Christmas.
Speaker 2:If you have to, if you have to make an announcement about it, I don't, it's just this is a tough one for me this year in particular, anyway.
Speaker 1:So before we do that, I just wanted to announce that you know, luke Travers has just released, like in the last month, last couple of weeks, yeah, last couple of weeks A stories and art edition.
Speaker 2:Come on, get the title right Stories and paint Stories, and paint, sorry.
Speaker 1:Stories and paint Kindle, so go. We'll put links in the show notes. But if you go to Amazon, luke, travers, l-u-c, travers, t-r-a-b-e-r-s and look for the Kindle version of stories in paint, so it'll have Luke, does it have all the same features?
Speaker 2:It's everything, everything, including the, the links to the audio versions that are built right into the Kindle. It's, it's, it's wonderful, and it's only ten dollars. Nine, ninety, nine right now, so it's like super cheap. The, the, the book itself costs like 90 bucks. So only nine, ninety, nine, right now, at least for through the holidays. But last minute Christmas present for anybody in your on your list who likes or doesn't like art.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and it's a great because it has 50 paintings. How many paintings this one have? Fifty, fifty, fifty five zero five zero paintings and it has a guided questions to get you engaged with them. And then it has a brief analysis of oh, not brief. Immersive story. Ok, so immersive story there Now, but it's, it's brief in the sense that it's not like you have to read ten pages. No, it's like it's very succinct, it's it builds you into the story of the painting, to get you into what's going on.
Speaker 1:So I found it very helpful to get more out of paintings. Rather than, oh, that looks pretty and then move on. It's like oh, that looks pretty, oh, but there's something profound behind it. That's what I like about the book, so get that. If you also, for me, go to troubadourcom and there's something called the literary canon club, sign up for that.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be announcing some features in the future and some and I just had my my first experience with literary canon club, joining your William Blake class, which I had a lot of fun with. So, yeah, check it out.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you. Ok, so let's get into the holiday spirit, or not, definitely. No I do I genuinely so? First let's talk about what the holiday spirit is. So I do love the holiday spirit, but let's bring you on. Why did you choose? Besides the fact that of the year, Is that the only reason you chose this theme? Is that no?
Speaker 2:because I like, I like my holidays. I really like thinking about holidays and I like thinking about what I want to celebrate during those holidays. So, doing Thanksgiving, I often think about family and good food and football and Christmas oh no, no, no, it's not. It's not the Christmas like Halloween. I love Halloween because not just for the scary stuff, but I like it because it's a kind of opportunity to to be imaginative about what you want to be. You know, this year my dress up is Indiana Jones for Halloween. So it's like I get, it's socially acceptable for me to channel an imaginative part of myself that I want to aspire to or that I want to bring out and whatever way it is. So that's how. And of course, you got, you know, valentine's Day, where you're celebrating romantic love, new Year's. It's like working on yourself. Ok, what, what have I accomplished this year? What am I looking forward to the next year? It's oftentimes it can be very like OK, it's an opportunity for growth. What's coming next?
Speaker 2:For me, christmas is a lot more about what I've been thinking about this, but a lot more about a kind of benevolence. You know, there's a when when we could say holiday spirit. I like saying Christmas spirit too, because maybe that captures a little bit. But of course you and I are both secular, so there's no Christ in Christmas for us, unless we'd like to go to church and sing along songs. What they're joy to the world is a great one to like, but there's a lot of joy, you know, especially when you hear Christmas music and and love Christmas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's your favorite?
Speaker 1:Well, I just saw at a jazz place here Vince Garall a show, vince Garaldi's Snoopy Christmas. Oh my God, what's it called the Snoopy soundtrack this?
Speaker 2:is Charlie Brown.
Speaker 1:Charlie Brown. Thank you, yeah, yeah, I just I just saw that recently and I loved that. But I love all the old standards.
Speaker 2:You know, I love all Perry Como, you know Frank Sinatra, the Dean Martins all those classics, christmas, yeah, like all of Christmas, yeah, when I was a kid my favorite was Deck the Halls, that, the halls with Bowser probably. Yeah, a lot of joy. And and then I was thinking a little bit about OK movies that capture that. So the big standard stories are, like you know, of course, christmas Carol, and you've got this guy who goes from grumpy, grinchy, to Finding the holiday, christmas spirit, to finding this benevolence. You got elf. That's become a more modern one, yeah Well, what do you like about elf?
Speaker 1:I mean, I just love his attitude, Alf's attitude, and just his. He like his pure joy, personified in kind of a silly way. Of course there is a silliness to him, but despite all the you know, the harshness and the grinchness of the world, he doesn't really get diminished like ever. It never diminishes his pure joy, which eventually becomes infectious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was a climactic scene is when they, like everybody, like test a scene and be merry and be joyous in order to get that Santa sled up off of the ground. Is that, it Something like that? Yeah, to fuel Santa sled, new Yorkers have to, like, get the joy out of them. A city load of Scrooge's have to find benevolence and joy in themselves. So I was thinking about elf and my favorite scene is actually could be taken on any other day of the year as a really creepy scene.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know what you're talking about, I think he goes into the women's bathroom. Yeah, only he could get away with that.
Speaker 2:And he can. And why can you get away with it?
Speaker 1:Because it's naivety, I think. I think he does it. You know, innocent joy and he has it.
Speaker 2:His purpose there is because he's in, he's in love with the beauty of the singing. He's like, wow, this is so amazing. Yeah, and I think during the holidays you get, during Christmas, you get this opportunity to be kind of transgressive in your benevolence. I was thinking about this in terms of just simply something simple as a Santa Claus. What is Santa Claus If not a home intruder who goes around a big conspiracy, breaking into every single home in the world, but not stealing your stuff, the stealing cookies, but no, no, we invite him and come and get some cookies. We thank him for not to steal your stuff, not to cause harm, but to bring you joy. Yeah, there's so, even even like Scrooge, who's somebody who's like you don't, at the end, you don't expect him, you're like they're kind of scared of him. What's he going to do? Why is he here? And he's there because now he's has this hard and he wants to celebrate. So there's this breaking of bounds, of the norms that might prevent us from being benevolent, or the things within ourselves that might prevent us from being benevolent, and Christmas is, like this, opportunity to do so.
Speaker 2:So may I tell a quick story of one Christmas holiday spirit moment. This is many years ago for me, when I used to live in an apartment complex in Southern California and I didn't know my downstairs neighbors, I didn't think I really wanted to get an odum because I'd hear them like yell at each other, you know, like domestic fights and then they did like smoke and never I couldn't go out to the back, my back porch, because I just smell the smoke rising from below and I I never, never really saw them and I and didn't really feel like interacting. Now, one Christmas happened to be on my own. I was baking cookies to bring the friends and I thought to myself, why don't I Bake some cookies and, you know, give a batch to them. So you know that Christmas morning I just went downstairs with some cookies, knocked in their door and said I'm your upstairs neighbor, merry Christmas. And he was like startled and I said, ok, thank you, and they went back inside.
Speaker 2:A couple hours later I get a knock at my door. You said we just baked some, some fajitas, would you, merry Christmas? And this person, this, these people that I'd not really interacted with, that I didn't really want to interact with. There was this kind of moment where, ok, we have a moment of kindness that we shared between each other and that kind of resets the table actually for our relationship for the rest of the time that we were neighbors. So the opportunity to break a kind, any taboos or any, any, any, any hindrances that we might have about being benevolent, I see that as part of the Christmas spirit opportunity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I definitely agree with that I mean the neighbor thing. I don't have a lot of stories like that around the Christmas time. For me the holiday spirit is really reconnecting with people that I maybe don't spend that much time with. That I would love to.
Speaker 1:So you know, friend of mine, this happened, like last year a friend of mine who I lost touch with and I just thought, like you know, I was a little lonely and I was like, hey, let me see what this guy's up to. You know he was going through stuff I was going to. It was a good reconnection, Absolutely Covid people reached out to me that normally don't yeah.
Speaker 1:When, when the Covid Christmas ish era happened, when it was still kind of under Covid, yeah, so stuff like that. To me it's about reconnecting times you don't with people you don't spend as much time with but you still exactly, but they're not at the top of your value list all year because you're limited in your time. But you do care about these people or they met something to you in the past. So you kind of reach out and you know, reconnect with them.
Speaker 1:I think that's one one thing for me that's always been very valuable. Yeah, I always do a lot of things around, you know, calling people and chatting with them and reconnecting. There is this long term stuff that comes from it, but that's not the reason I do it. I do it because it's just like I'm hey, I haven't seen this person 10 years. What are they up to these days?
Speaker 2:What are they up to? And I feel like I want to reach out and spark a bit of joy with each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, reconnect on our old whatever we were connected on yeah. You know, something from high school, of high school friend I haven't talked to in 20 years.
Speaker 2:It's that kind of unexpected quality. I think also is that's common in all these things that we're talking about Aware. It's not something you would typically do, but you're taking the opportunity to, to have a moment of joy with other people, and even something like presents. You wrap the presents, you don't just give them. Hey, here's your microwave, you wrap it. It's a surprise. It's like, oh, what did this person get me? You're like, well, you pay somebody to wrap it for you.
Speaker 1:I pay somebody to wrap it for me, but I do like finding, like for the close people in my life. I like finding special gifts for them, like I enjoy thinking about what will be meaningful to them. That's, that's another part of Christmas in particular that I love. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I'll give you one example from a movie that nobody you don't think of as a holiday movie, but I had kept. You know, forget diehard.
Speaker 1:Just kidding.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. But everybody's going to say it's a Christmas movie. That's another debate. But I'm going to bring up another one that maybe a lot of people haven't seen. But I wonder if you have the movie Emily?
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, yes so.
Speaker 2:Emily is not a Christmas movie, but I think she embodies the Christmas spirit.
Speaker 2:I think she'd be amazing at Christmas.
Speaker 2:And the reason why is that there's this character who is a French movie With Audrey Totu, who's just so delightful. You can maybe see her as a elf without the over the top exuberance, but also, what she wants is to bring joy to others lives, and she does it in a surreptitious way. So one iconic scene for me is just walking around Paris, she there's this blind man that she knows and who may or may not know her at that point she's feeling like she, she's feeling happy and she wants to share that benevolence. And so what she does is she takes him by the arm and she just walks him through Paris, describing every single detail that she sees as vividly as possible, being his eyes for the like the next 15 minutes, and he's like he, he's hearing her description, he's kind of taking it in, and this moment where she's like sharing this moment of joy and providing that for him makes me think of this is a kind of Christmas spirit type of thing to do to share that benevolence, share that joy unexpectedly with someone else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely think that's one part. I don't know if that's the fundamental for me, though, but I do know that's a common one, like the connection with, like the common themes I see in movies, and you know, I guess on popular culture things are like, yeah, the kind of altruistic connection with other people in the sense of just making connections with people, and I do think a lot of it can be altruistic. You know, I think Dickens, for instance, where it's about giving to other people. I think it's a common theme, where it's like this is the time where we reflect and we've decided, oh, we have extra we can give to other people. I think that's one. And then I do think the one that I like the most although there's just two more, but one other one theme is the family connection of like re-appreciating what you have. It's a wonderful life. Nicholas Cage, family man, I think, even Arnold Schwarzenegger's Jingle All the Way.
Speaker 1:There are all these movies where it's like the whole point of it is you get caught up in certain traversing a certain path to get what you think you want, or one aspect of life, and you shut off all other aspects of life, and I see that so many times, like I have friends with a lot of hyper successful people and hyper focused people and it's like, you know, help, family, friends, community art though those things fall to the wayside and it's like, wait a second, so you've achieved a lot of success here, but then you have none of the success in anywhere else.
Speaker 1:And I think some of these movies, even though they tend to be, you know a little, sometimes over the top cheesy in my view, in terms of like, oh, family will solve everything. Who cares if you lose all your money? Okay, that's ridiculous, but I do think they have that kind of, that kind of perception of getting to an awareness like this is a time of air of year to stop and reflect, which it traditionally would be because of the changing of the season. So it's part of it's like a religious aspect in the sense of, well, it's longer nights, you're not out as much, you're indoors, you're around the hearth, you're trying to warm up. So there's stories and there's connections and there's that meditative contemplation on what is the good life, what am I directing my life correctly? And I think those things are fundamentally important to the holiday season and each one of the holidays, I think, captures them in a unique way.
Speaker 2:So what you're describing as like kind of okay, reconnecting with family or people that are have been in your life, that maybe you've been distracted from paying attention to. And what you're describing is kind of like, let's maybe more altruistic, let's be kind to others that we might not usually be kind to. I see them for me as kind of both part of the same thing, part of the. There is a joy that you get from other people that you have within yourself that you want to share that you. That's sparked even more by seeing the people around you happy, and so for me it goes from okay, the people, your close family that you spend time with, to then the people you you might not get to spend time with or you don't think about most of the time and you reconnect with them. To then your downstairs neighbor who you don't talk to to, then maybe a stranger in the street you say Merry Christmas to.
Speaker 2:But all that from me kind of coalesces into. I have this core of this joyous benevolence that now, at this time of year, I want to send out into the world. So altruism for me is a really loaded term for me. I don't see it as being altruistic, but more of. I love the sun and I want it to shine everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the benevolent universe premise type thing. I mean I agree that that's the best of the holidays, but I think an objective. Look at the way the culture sells this idea. Forget the culture, Kirk. Find it in yourself. No, no, no, you can't forget the culture because it's I will not let you be a grinch.
Speaker 1:It's part of like I'm not, I'm just saying like it's part of what you get inundated with, and I agree with you a wholeheartedly that the the important lesson, or the important thing to do, is to try to sift through all the imagery and the different types of messaging you might get to what is the most important thing, and I agree with you Fund wholeheartedly again, that the most important thing is well one. For me, it's meditation on your life and reflection on your life, the world where you're going. That's important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is important.
Speaker 1:I think that's probably to me the most important thing. Yeah, because the most important thing is that kind of you know the world is if you do live in a pretty good world. I think we do that you. You recognize all the greatness in the world we live in, and then there's a kind of sharing of that with people and an expectation that other people have that in their soul even if they don't, and I think that's very important and I agree.
Speaker 2:So I think this would be a good question to ask the audience, if anybody wants to say what is your thought on what the Christmas spirit, of a holiday spirit is, what matters to you most during the holidays, what makes Christmas, this season, special. So, kirk, are you ready for a painting? Let's do it. So there are lots of Christmas-themed paintings out there. Anybody who wants to find any, go to Norman Rockwell and you'll have all kinds of joyous things. I have not picked out a traditionally Christmas-y painting, a traditionally holiday painting at all, and one, kirk, that you, on first glance, you know what. I would expect you not to stop in front of an art museum.
Speaker 1:I'll be interested to hear why afterwards.
Speaker 2:Okay, but first I'm interested to hear what your first impression is. Maybe a quick initial title, and then what do you see going on, are you?
Speaker 1:ready. I'm always nervous. I'm always nervous for these. It's like all right, we got this.
Speaker 2:All right, so this is one I saw at the Cleveland Museum of Art, and here it is. What's your initial title?
Speaker 1:Gathering, I get, or park, I can't Great, but I also. The first word that came to mind was actually like shy or coy or nervous or something like that.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of good words there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because they all contribute to lots of things that are actually in the painting here.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so many of those. Sorry, I'll go back again.
Speaker 2:Build any of those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I what I'm seeing is a I think this is a park. There's trees, the full first, top third of the painting. I think it's the top third, okay. So yeah, you have to scroll down because there's. I say, oh, this would be really cool to see in person. To the top, like third at least, is all a canopy of leaves with a little bit of white, green leaves, with some white flowers from trees there's only it's not like a super dense forest, but there's a good amount of trees where there are chairs settled among the trees, some people off in black to the right wearing black, and there's some people in black farther in the trees, across this little white lane. In the foreground is a young girl, I think. Is who this must be? A young girl, maybe a young boy, but I assume young girl, who seems to be either leaning against a tree but kind of almost hiding, if it's what I feel she's kind of hiding in the background but peeping like she's looking.
Speaker 1:She's not hiding from anybody, she's like hiding like I want to see what's going on, but I don't want people to see me. See what's going on is what I see.
Speaker 2:I was kind of see you and your body posture kind of mimicking her a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like she's kind of like, oh, what's going on over there, type thing.
Speaker 2:Craning her neck out just a little bit, but keeping her body behind the tree.
Speaker 1:Now I can't tell if she's like holding a cup of tea or if she's holding something I can't tell what's in that it's.
Speaker 2:yeah, the style is very impressionistic, isn't it? Yes, yeah, so it's a little so it looks like her arm is up like, oh, maybe, yeah, maybe, up to her chin kind of like. Another sign of like maybe coyness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some kind of shyness to what's going on. Now it does look to the left of the painting like there's some potential procession. I don't know what's going on. It's very like you're saying impressionistic. So I see what looks like four figures, one figure at the forefront of this group, going from the left to the right of the screen of the painting. She seems like she's leaning down or bending down or something. So I'm not certain. It looks like one is like lying down, like one gentleman is like lying down or I'm not sure what's going on exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't see the lying down myself.
Speaker 1:This guy, you know, the one in the middle, I guess like with red. Yeah, I can't tell. Yeah, I can't tell. If he's like weighed low down, I can't tell.
Speaker 2:So I think that's a good observation. All three of the figures are smaller than the ones that are the even farther away. The figures, the figures in black that are tall and still like, like women walking around the park. Yeah, so smaller figures and the little girl that you were pointing at, behind the tree she's staring at them. So who could they be?
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's staring at the people on the left, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the small figures.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because there's, there's three or not there's four people across the. So there's a white pathway in the middle right, which is where those people who I think are leaning down are. Across from there, so even farther away are like four figures, mostly in black. Yeah, out, faceless. So that's the other thing. Like that, it's kind of almost not a look at an eerie like the one that's faces right. Yeah, like the one that's right across from the one, the young girl looks like it's almost looking at her, but there's no eyes, mouth or nose.
Speaker 2:Yep, just too far away, just too far away.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's too far away. Yeah, like, maybe it's the girl's memory or she's not. You know you don't remember. May I throw this in?
Speaker 2:here the three figures that they're. They're smaller. You're hypothesizing that they might be stooping over. Is there any other possibility for why they're smaller?
Speaker 1:The animals, or two of them are animals, because it looks like there's a how about this. They're children or their children, yeah, yeah, well, ok, yeah, I didn't know the figures size or what's going on, so it's possible that these are four children playing. Sure, that's something else. It's four children playing. Maybe one is falling over in their play and the girl is wanting to play and she doesn't play for some reason. I don't know if she belongs to this lady and like some kind of weird leopard or some kind of weird print.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's a couple of women sitting down. One of them has black and and she seems to be close by. Maybe that's they just got to the park and yeah, they're staring over at the children playing. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I know that feeling. I remember that feeling when I was a kid, even as an adult, where it's like people are talking or playing, it's like you want to join, but you're feeling a little embarrassed to go approach and yeah, that's part of what's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, do you remember anything specific from your childhood?
Speaker 1:Oh man, I mean I think a lot of events where you're at the playground and there's a basketball game going and you're kind of sitting on the sidelines and you want to play, but you don't want to interrupt the play and you're nervous to go talk to them. I can't think of any specific moments. I do know that I tended to go for it, yeah, and usually it was fine. I mean, it was pretty athletic, so it wasn't a problem.
Speaker 1:But, I definitely was an adult. It's much harder to like walk into like a group of adults talking and start talking to them, but I've kind of trained myself to try to do that as a salesperson network or I guess they still find like I'll just kind of watch because I'm a you know, I've said this on the show before like I'm actually more of an introvert, more private, you know person. That I think people think when they see me at an event.
Speaker 1:So you can sympathize with her, but I could totally sympathize with the oh like dancing, dancing. That's the one.
Speaker 2:So definitely like dance.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I have two left feet so I always, you know, sit aside and we'll like just watch people dance often, and then when it's like just generic contemporary music, I can just go and throw up my hands like crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, when you don't have to like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could just do like the pardon me and the white man dance, just kind of jump it up and down, and we'll like there's just like no real.
Speaker 2:So, speaking of music, there's one little immersion technique that really got me into this painting, and I'm going to ask you this question and see what you make of it. What do you hear?
Speaker 1:Well, now that you say the children, I hear children laughing and playing, for sure, and I definitely hear shittering of you know, the older people, or maybe even you know I brought up Charlie Brown earlier the Well that sounds yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of the background. Who cares about them?
Speaker 2:But yeah, that that first thought for me too. Yeah, the children laughing. Yeah, the children laughing that are out there. They're kind of looks like they're maybe holding hands, maybe all standing around, maybe tumbling around, and she is there behind this tree, looking upon them with a bit of FOMO, wishing that she could join them. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, but right at this moment she, she loves what's going on over there. She wants to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:So her foot is even almost like I'm about to go. I love that. Yes, that that left that left foot.
Speaker 2:That's kind of you know I'm it's. It could be almost like she's about to go. I kind of see it as like rubbing the back of her, her left foot, rubbing the back of her right leg. And I wish, I want to go. I'm reaching to go kind of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. She definitely wants to go All right.
Speaker 2:This makes me think of the holidays. Now I'm curious if there are any, If in any way this Seems to connect to the holidays in any way for you.
Speaker 1:Well, I can abstract and go into the something. That's the desire that you're on the outside of something and you're looking at. So you know, there's a scene in. Catch Me, If you Can. Where have you seen that movie with Leonardo DiCaprio?
Speaker 2:I haven't, but I know, I know, I know that's a good movie yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like it's a you know, abernathy is his name he's like a, you know, con artist, young man, young boy though, who's parents get divorced when he's young and he's anyway. So it's a scene at the end where he's like looking at his, you know, through the window to his mother's new family and her new child, who's happy and they're happy. And you know, basically there's I think there's. I've definitely had that feeling and I probably heavily will have it this year, the feeling I've had it many years, but the feeling of like there's something I want, you know, like family, this kind of connection thing, and I'm looking on the outside into it.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're making me sad. It's like it's like the Christmas depression, because you're seeing how other people are happy and then you wish you had that.
Speaker 1:And that's something that you want. There's a kind of longing for that thing. I told you I'm in a mood this year for sure. But I've had this before many years, but it's hit me hard this year particularly.
Speaker 2:So, kirk, but that's exactly what I'm seeing too, and when we're talking about, like Christmas music, that the halls and joy to the world the most, maybe the most joyous sound in the history of the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, joy to the world. Oh, joy and Christmas, yeah.
Speaker 2:Children laughing.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I just I saw, I told you I went to that jazz show of Charlie Brown and they gave like background of Vince Giraldi and you know they have. They were saying that every night because there's a Christmas song with, there's a song with children, a choir, and apparently every night they had a different group of kids doing that, to do the to catch that recording, because the parents would always get pissed at people at the, at the recorders for taking too long and keeping them up all night or something. But they did a whole bunch of but yeah, I mean that was what they were trying to capture. That was like this, this kind of joyous sound.
Speaker 2:So I agree. Yeah, so this, this. She's kind of on the outside looking in and when I see this painting, I can I can remember my childhood too and think about moments where I wish I were part of the the you know, the group playing marbles at recess. Or you know, like I like that basketball game analogy, like I want to go play basketball too, but there it looks like they're having so much fun. But this also, when I'm looking at this as an adult, as a teacher, I'm thinking to myself I want to.
Speaker 2:I want to help her join. I want to. I want to take her hand and say hey, you want me to go introduce you. I want to. Or maybe, maybe I want to. If they're playing with a ball over there, I want to like go over and kick the ball away from the other kids in the direction of the girl to orchestrate a kind of reunion between them, maybe like Emily might do. I want to. I see her and I want to extend my Christmas spirit to her. I want her to participate and enjoy too. I definitely want her to participate.
Speaker 1:For sure, I think I that's interesting. So you would want to orchestrate an event where it incorporated her? Yeah, that's what you're saying. I would. That's what I think about when I think about the Christmas spirit for myself.
Speaker 2:I think about the people like my neighbor downstairs. How can I get them involved? Get them involved. Yeah, have a little bit of joy. Spread the joy around. Yeah, I think that's interesting. Spread the joy around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree that's a nice. That's why I sought and seek to build communities and I try to create events that you do, types of people and go to because I want them to be involved and I'm like, oh yeah, just come to this and you reach out to people and you're like you would totally say, hey, hey, let me organize this game for everybody here.
Speaker 2:Hey, this is my new friend, Cheryl she. You know she's. She's, she's new to the park. Yeah, you would totally do that, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean it's I. So I definitely agree with what you're saying. I think that's a real value to kind of make new connections, and I do realize how much work it takes and not just from the person organizing, but just like for the little girl to do that even without does take a lot of effort and energy and I think that's why people don't do it is because it does take a lot of courage and energy and effort to not only go and approach them, just make that long trek through those woods, but also to, you know, try to build something with them over time, to join the game on a weekly basis and make real long term connections. Like both of those things take a lot of effort.
Speaker 2:And in a way the Christmas spirit kind of helps with that courage, gives you that courage.
Speaker 1:And it reminds you, because you're not in the work, I think that's this is kind of, you know, building into the poem I'm bringing, but to part of it, to me that if we think about the ancient connections, the pagan rituals, that would, you know, bringing the tree into the house to kind of have some, you know, connection to nature while we're in this slumberous period, is again that you get a chance to refresh and to think, because you don't have to hit the harvest every day, you don't have to get up at the, you know, when the crows you are in a grim mood, how about?
Speaker 1:the blue jays, yeah what am. I trying to say Ha, yeah, no, I'm trying to say, like the turkeys, what are the call in the morning for the roosters? Call, like to wake you up in the morning? Shanta claire, shanta claire is out there.
Speaker 2:Has the raven visited you last night?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the raven is on my shoulder man, he will not go away, Anyway. So, yeah, like you don't have that as much anymore right now and you have your you know saved up nut for the summer, for the winter, and so you're now just kind of reaping that and holding on to it and you're reflecting on these things and I think that's a time for you to understand that holiday that comes from, the holiday spirit there's connected to it. Okay, you want to share the poem? Yeah, so it's a shorter one, so I will. I'm curious if you've read oh wait, before we do, why did you say I? You don't think I would like that, that painting.
Speaker 2:Oh, because it's kind of impressionistic, it's not? I know you like paintings that have a lot more detail in lines, where you can spend a lot of time seeing the precision of all the details in the painting. I think that's probably why you I don't think you would stop in front of it if you were at the museum.
Speaker 1:Well, I definitely have recently really started to appreciate Van Gogh, so I don't know that that's as true anymore, but yeah you're right, in the past I've definitely and I still will prefer those, but I see value and I mean one day maybe we could talk about impressionism, because it is interesting.
Speaker 2:But I think, I think, from what I gathered you did, you did like that painting.
Speaker 1:Oh, I liked it a lot yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's. That's the kind of painting I like, where you might not stop in front of it, but then you delve more into it and then you, you personally, connect yeah.
Speaker 1:I love it, okay. So here's the poem it's called. Are you able to see this? I am Okay. It's called Holidays by Henry Wadsworth. You Long Fellow. I don't know this one. Okay, it's pretty short, it's a sonnet. Okay, here we go. The holiest of all holidays are those kept by ourselves, in silence and apart. The secret anniversaries of the heart when the full river of feeling overflows. The happy days unclouded to their clothes. The sudden joys that, out of darkness, start as flames from ashes. Swift desires that dart like swallows singing down each wind that blows. White as the gleam of a receding sail, white as a cloud that floats and fades in air. White as the whitest lily on a stream. These tender memories are a fairy tale of some enchanted land, we know not where, but lovely as a landscape in a dream. Okay.
Speaker 2:So let me see what I'm getting from this. This is someone who is reflecting on the holidays, but reflecting especially that the spirit of the holidays, the emotions of the holidays, doesn't start with other people but starts from within themselves and from their contemplation of um does the impression I'm getting.
Speaker 1:their contemplation of their nostalgic memories Hmm, yep, well, so what do you think of the idea of it being like? So the idea of it being the holiest of all holidays are those that are kept in your own heart.
Speaker 2:Oh, it starts with you. I like that.
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's. I mean that's, that's Scrooge. Before he can be part of the holidays, he's got to have a fundamental change of heart.
Speaker 1:Yes, he's got to have a change of heart. Well, ok, so there's this whole sequence of. So you know, with the sonnet there's kind of a set up scenario at the beginning and then there's a kind of answering at the end yeah, call and response, almost. So he's making a claim. So the question is do you, luke, agree with this claim that the holiest of all holidays are those kept by ourselves, in silence and apart? So that's the holiest of all holidays and he calls it the secret anniversaries of the heart. Now he describes what that is.
Speaker 1:What are the secret anniversaries of the heart? Right, it's when the full river of feeling overflows, the happy days unclouded to their clothes. So it's to me this is about, again, the recollections and the, the those types of things. But do you agree with this, this whole midsection about? Well, actually, first of all, as you do you agree with the idea because this is a little different than what you talked about is your favorite parts of the holidays, which is going downstairs connecting people to benevolence? He is making another claim which is the holiest, the best, that utmost, are those, do you those moments that are personal to you? In a second.
Speaker 2:I don't think those two are incompatible. I think one depends on the other. Ok, explain. I mean, I think you know, before I went downstairs I had to resolve to myself this is what I want. I want joy. Um, why do I want it? You know, I'm I. I want a world where I want I. I can smile at people that the primary thing is not the yelling, is not the this, the cigarette, smoke, the or the, the stresses. The primary thing I want in my life are the sudden joys that, out of darkness, start as flames from ashes. Ok, and then when I have those, when I have it for myself, then I can put a batch of cookies on a plate, put some tinfoil over it and go knock on the door.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:Um, joy for others starts for me, for For joy within, and I think that's when I mentioned Scrooge. I think that's the same basic idea there, yeah, that he, in order for him to share his benevolence with others, he's got to find his own happiness and go back to his past to realize what was the faithful decision that he made that turned him away from joy. And it's that decision that often a lot of people make like you're alluding to friends who are very busy and very driven, and that's what he was. He said, oh, I'm not going to get married to this woman and said I'm going to, I'm shutting her out because I'm so driven by my career and by my greed. And he has to rediscover the holiest of all holidays, the one that's kept within himself and apart. So that's that's, that's my view. You can't have one without the other.
Speaker 1:Now, what do you think of the idea at the end where he says these tender memories so he's talking about, you know, in the, in the midsection, from when the river of feeling overflows, and he gives all these nature analogies of what he means by that flames from ashes swallows singing down each one that blows. There's the swift.
Speaker 2:Yeah, may I read it? May I read it? Well, yeah, you can.
Speaker 1:I was going to have you read it after we've discussed it a little bit, but for me it will help me process it.
Speaker 2:Then do it. Yeah, ok, I prefer you process it.
Speaker 2:All right. So the secret I'm starting after the first couple of lines the secret anniversaries of the heart, when the full river of feeling overflows. So, the secret anniversaries of the heart. So it's all those moments that are precious to you that you think about, not other people, that not that you've shared with other people, the happy days unclouded to their clothes oh, those are, those are nice. The sudden joys that, out of darkness, start his flames from ashes. Sudden joys. I love those swift desires that dart like swallows, singing down each wind that blows. I've had those swift desires. White as a gleam of a receding sail. White as a cloud that floats and fades in air. White as the whitest lily on a stream. These tender memories are so thinking back to all these different kinds of Kinds of joys from my past, and they're all this kind of floating thing, whether they're floating on the stream or floating in the air or floating on the wind.
Speaker 2:These are tender memories and yeah, they're there. I guess I agree with like they are in the past. There is not a substantial, you're not right now they're. They're kind of floating there in the background when I think about them, like dreams and then A fairy tale. So this is summarizing those memories, I think. A fairy tale of some enchanted land, we know not where, but lovely as a landscape and a dream.
Speaker 1:Well, I almost think of it not even as like. I think this is almost an evaluation of this these types of feelings that I find it personally. I find it interesting. He calls it a fairy tale. Right, Because a fairy tale is not real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not a real thing, and so he calls it a fairy tale of some enchanted land, we know not where, we don't know where it is or if it's ever, but nevertheless it's lovely as a landscape in a dream, so it's. So he's calling it lovely, you know he's again. He's alluding to this dreaminess to it, and the whole poem has a dream. I think that's what you're catching, with white as a gleam of a receding sail. You know you're to me. I have this image of like almost glimmering on this, you know, on a sea or like. Again, that's how memories feel to me. It's like there's a glimmeriness to it when you see them done in memory in movies. We often will have like a kind of sadiness to it and I think that's that, this kind of is trying to capture that in words.
Speaker 1:There's a gleam, like you're not seeing the whole receding sail. There's the gleam of it. There's, like I said, the clouds float and fades, and so there's that thing where it's like, yeah, f a mural, like you were saying earlier. So all of these things, the holiest of feelings, the most important thing about being a human and alive, these holidays are these anniversaries, these feelings that are actually F a mural and somewhat not real In a sense. I think it's part of what he's saying, but I still think and for me anyway, it's still think it still is Worthy of holding it as an anniversary. So you know, yeah, an anniversary, or something that you no longer have from your past, but that meant something to you.
Speaker 1:Ok, ok, so relationship for it. So this, this is not. It seems like what's being said here is not.
Speaker 2:This is not his commentary on the holidays, either Christmas or on any other holiday. What is commentary here is the most precious anniversaries are not the public ones, but the personal, private ones. Yes, and so it's almost like we may all together celebrate Christmas, but, kirk, you have at certain, during certain days of the year, maybe your own personal remembrances that you're going to commemorate your own personal holidays. Better, not your birthday, because that's everybody celebrates that too, but something else that's just you an anniversary, but something else that's just you an anniversary that you keep, that you remember at this time of year what was going on with me. Well, yeah, that might be seasonal.
Speaker 1:I also, but I do also think that. So it's. He's capturing the, the individuality or the, or the aloneness of each of us, even as we celebrate with other people, in a sense that even if I celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving with Luke, holy soul, you are still individually experiencing it in your own unique, individual soul. So, yes, there's, we're doing it together. Where I'm at the table, you're at the table, where we're each fleshed, or we're each such unique and robust souls that are infinite in us, that it's, that it's us who has to have this experience, and that's what I get from.
Speaker 2:It is so that I can see how that you can apply that to yourself. Yeah, you can see. You know what you have your Christmas. I have my Christmas, the Christmas that I think about from my childhood, the Christmas that I think about through the years, the people that I've been with my fondest memories. I have that and that I can. I can.
Speaker 2:Those are the, the receding sails, the, the clouds that float and fades in air, and the, the little white, whitest lilies on the stream, that kind of those are there and you know what this poem is making me think of, that you do have those private memories, but there's a thinking about this in comparison to the painting, it's making me think a little bit of. You have what's those memories in the past, but then you also have, ok, the today, the here and now, the acting. What are you going to do now? Are you going to help that child go and enjoy the joy that's there in the world In a sense, or are you going to reconnect with that friend? Or are you going to think about what your sister might like for Christmas and get it a present that makes you think of her?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I, I definitely. To me, the connection to the painting is more the sense, almost the mode, the feeling, because they both have that kind of airy light feeling, right in terms of their style. So this has this kind of you know, feeling of. So he has, he makes a clear statement, but then it's all about river and feelings overflowing. It's about flames from ashes, swift desires that dart like swallows and singing down each wind that blows. So it's, you know, it's like this to me. I feel the kind of aspect of you walking around in nature and you see, like a little bird fluttering over there, you see, you know, whiteness over.
Speaker 2:And even in the painting, when I'm hearing the children laughing, it's I'm not in the middle of the game, I'm hearing it kind of off the woods yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, distant, I think, is a good word for both of them and for me where there feels like he's even calling it fairy tale, you know like, and he relates it to a land of some enchanted land, we know, no, not. And if you, if you read fairy tales or if you remember any of them or you think about them, like there is, you know, it's a once upon a time where Star Wars, like in a land, you know how does it begin?
Speaker 2:I know life far, far away and galaxy far, far away.
Speaker 1:There's that disconnect, there's that separateness where it's that's this land that does, but it does kind of exist. There is an existent and we can't grasp it, you can't hold on to it, but it exists and we all know that it exists and I think the holidays, in terms of the calendar year, remind us of that existed, that it could be there anytime. But in the holiday season in America, from Thanksgiving to New York, new Year's, we all kind of go into that mode and you know automatically and it's a time for this kind of reminding of that feeling of remembrance of these that these ephemeral values are real. That's, that's what I kind of take away from them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like ephemeral values and I think of them as kind of like distant, far, far away, far, long time ago from your past. That you bring them back and they, they are kind of the personal tradition of that holiday that you, you have Well Paycheck is real House mortgage is real.
Speaker 1:House mortgage is real right In the sense you could touch it. Paycheck is real, like in the sense that you could. It's physical. So these are non physical values, I think, and well, they know what they, they, they are.
Speaker 2:But, at one point they were real memories of things like that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think that's more.
Speaker 2:And, and so I kind of think of the, the pairing of the painting, the poem is the poem is retrospective, it's, it's inviting, it's making me feel like, ok, what? What are the memories that I have of, of my past holidays that are mine, that that are my personal psychological tradition? And then the painting Urges me to act, to be an Emily, to be an elf, to to, to want to to, to spread joy, to create new memories going forward.
Speaker 1:That, I think, is the most important thing for sure Like it's easy to be to, you know, get lost in these memories, fairy tales, this old vision of things and the way that you used to think of things. But the yeah, the recharge, and this is where New Year's holidays like the lotus eaters?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can be, tempting to get lost in those and they're. They have their place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the memories of the past, but also you know to go out and like, go to new memories, yeah yeah, meet new people, new relationships, new year, reconnect with friends, reconnect and then. But the key word there is, connect right Today and then move forward with more into the future. You know, make 2024 better than 2023. I think it's the, the hope.
Speaker 2:Well, Kirk, that sounds like a wonderful little ending. Last word for our holiday special. How are you feeling? How are you feeling? Are you feeling like you're your? Your heart's growing, grown a little bit Like what happens at the bridge at the end, what happens at the? What With the?
Speaker 1:Grinch at the end. Yeah, no, I mean, everything will be fine in the end, but no, the solidity of the end. But no, this holiday season is not going to be the best for me personally, just because of personal things. But I always take this kind of literary, artistic perspective that we're talking about here, of the whole scope of life, and I always try to think of that. It's one of the lessons I've gained from reading a lot of literature is being able to step outside easier and see the whole 80, 90, 100 years that I'll hopefully be here, and you know that there's things aren't amazing for whatever reason.
Speaker 1:I, I'm the little girl looking into, you know, looking at this thing that I am more and more clearly realizing that I want and I don't have, and so now it's like moving in that direction, in a sense, more steadily and firmly, and I think that's a good thing to me. I so I'm never afraid of the negative emotions. They suck a lot of times, but they are Part of the, the winds of a sail to get you on the right way. It's like a storm that you have to weather to figure out the right path of life, and if you don't have it, I don't think you'll ever. You know well I think there's no such thing as not having it. So part of you could ignore it and pretend and then you get capsized out of nowhere. But I think it's very valuable to take this time to reflect and to you know plan 24.
Speaker 2:And and this For the holidays for me, it's making me think hey, how can I reach out to my good friend Kirk? I think you already join him a little bit on his journey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is this is it. This is this did it, but, yeah, perfect. It's always good to talk to you. This was, this was very fun.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed it a lot. Thank you, kirk. Thanks Luke.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Luke.
Speaker 2:Happy holidays everyone.